UK Indymedia | Graffiti from around Oxford, pt. 9

Praise !

06.02.2005 21:27

Absolute mastrpieces. The word "glitch" is stunning in its timeless curvaceous effrontery.

Wholebine

Tags vs real stuff

07.02.2005 09:52

Tags were original and fun in the 80s. But doing the same old thing over and over again for 20 years is kinda lame.

The Bush napalm one is good though, and the Square-Eyes too.

Geoff

Nonsense, Geoff. Each rendering of "Glitch" purveys a subtle originality which is only really savoured by the cognoscienti di grafitti, yet which resonates in the very guts of the working class. They are timeless, born of a well-estalished tradition yes, but reborn each time they are remoreselessly uttered alongside the gutters of life.

Wholebine

dump the egotistical ones please

07.02.2005 21:45

Basically all the ones with just the name Glitch are off topic here as they are just blatant ego tripping on your part. It's just as off topic as if I were to upload some of my landscape photos from my various holidays. The ones with a political message, I don't have a problem with - keep them coming.

piss artist

Art

08.02.2005 00:06

Nonsense, Piss Artist. If you see a lot of Pollocks in his mature style, they are all very similar, and the same thing applies to many other artists. Henry VIII’s wives all looked very similar. Would you call them off-topic or blatant ego-tripping ? They are Art. That’s what this is about. You can learn to appreciate these things. Or, if you are a working man, it comes naturally to you at a street level.

Wholebine

Art is overrated

08.02.2005 11:27

Nonsense wholebine.
I'm not just having a go at glitch because much of the tagging is the same. Sorry but straight tagging style graffiti is as sophisticated and appealing as a wretched dog cocking it's leg on a fence. It's purely to do with promoting one's self for no worthwhile and certainly not any political reason. Me me me! Look! I've been here! Who gives a f*$% that a dog or person with an overdeveloped ego decides to mark some territory off as their's? The graffiti with the Abu Ghraib prison images are great, spot on. Some of the others with tiny political messages like "Free Tibet" that appear to have been added almost as an afterthought seem more than a little shallow to me.

Basically what I'm saying is that there's too much dross already on Indymedia without it being added to by a load of apolitical art. Art on it's own is overrated and should be off topic. There is so much wrong with this world due to political reasons that needs putting right first before we should indulge ourselves in art. Do you want me to make my point by sending up my holiday photos and see how relevant you think they are?

piss artist

politics shmolitics...

08.02.2005 15:29

hahaha! people offering their holiday photos seems to be a common reponse to photos of graff.

however, i snap what i see, and i post what i snap. i dont like people telling me i should only post "political" graffiti. for me, graffiti IS political, in its very nature. to do that would be basically posting ones i like and omitting ones i dislike - a popularity contest.

i doubt all these people claiming only like "political" graffiti would be to chuffed if they saw a piece that said "go fox hunting!" or "ban refugees".
not to metion, these posts are helping to represent an under-represented and opressed art form. surley any art form that is repressed by the powers that be is automatically "political". any way, i could ramble on...

im pleased that its generated a bit of controvosy, and as long as im allowed to post these pics i will. enjoy!!

aex

Heavenly stuff

08.02.2005 21:52

I am surprised that someone as seriouslly off-message as piss artist is allowed to have his opinions shown on the newswire, because they are only opinions and that is not what the newswire is supposed to be about. Piss artist has obviously learnt very little from what has already been written here about graffiti, for example that they are taking art on to the streets, and that is already political. Wholebine has tried to explain their artistic value. Moreover, something does not have to be making an overt political point to have relevance to our everyday political and social landscape. The fact that it is illegal further politicises it. Piss artist is so narrow-minded ! Research has shown that nobody objects to graffiti except the men who have to clean them off, who are thick. They are inoffensive beautiful murals. Nothing could be more fantastic than witnessing this growth of culture and art . If half the world expressed their creative abilities more publicly, people might smile more. And it’s a great archive. We don’t live in London, but frankly, if Western Civilisation had to choose between saving just one from the Tate Gallery, the Victoria & Albert Museum, the National Gallery, and Oxford Graffiti, I think it would choose Oxford Graffiti. I didn’t use to think like this, but I have been persuaded, and now that I have seen the light, I cannot condemn philistines like piss artist too strongly. How dare he say that Art is over-rated ! Let’s see his holiday snaps, and judge for ourselves just how good they are compared to aex. They can always be trashed if they’re good for nothing else.

Vicki

Crazy !

09.02.2005 20:52

Bloody hell, have these people been brainwashed or something ?

Steve

Oh please!

09.02.2005 23:40

Wholebine and Vicki are just so like all knee jerking art obsessives. Anyone who dares to disagree with their absurdly broad definition of what is good art is immediately branded narrow minded and Philistine. End of discussion. Vicki, having "seen the light", is so into her thought police leanings that she even thinks I should be completely censored for my beliefs. Let me remind you that I didn't start this thread, aex who posted yet more graffiti photos did. I merely made the legitimate and heart felt comment to the original post stating that SOME but NOT ALL of the pics were off topic for not really having anything politically relevant to say. Your opinion is that for stating that, I should be COMPLETELY censored. You then make the laughable claim that "Research has shown that nobody objects to graffiti except the men who have to clean them off, who are thick". Well I for one and no one else I know has ever been approached by someone with a white coat and clip board and asked for our opinions about graffiti. So clearly your comment is somewhat untrue and could therefore be legitimately hidden. Fact is there's plenty of graffiti I do like, but tagging... well you've already heard my comments. I also know plenty of free thinking people who have very similar views to mine. Also that's a bit of a sweeping generalisiation about council workers now isn't it?

Your statement that because graffiti is illegal further politicises it is also rather absurd. I hope you'll agree that the hateful billboard adverts dreamed up by overpaid, coke snorting advertising execs are hardly good art. So consider this:
Lambeth council itself has been felling billboards that never had planning permission. By your definition, does this mean that the lying car ads that were felled on one side of the road were somehow better and more political than the legitimate identical ones on the other side of the road? Why not?

How dare I say that art is over rated? Well quite easily. There, I just said it again and the sky hasn't fallen in. Don't get so uptight and precious. If just a fraction of the energy and grants that went into promoting bad art were directed into sorting out some of the problems of this imperfect world, then far far more people would be smiling. I won't be posting my holiday photos. I never claimed they're particularly good and besides, the volunteer Indymedia administrators have enough to do without having to hide deliberately off topic postings.

piss artist

Eerie similarity

10.02.2005 04:40

"Wholebine and Vicki are just so like all knee jerking art obsessives."

That's because Wholebine and Vicki are both really Roger Moreton,

rogerox@yahoo.co.uk.

Here in New Zealand, we like to amuse ourselves by emailing Roger viruses, and listening to him plead with us to stop.

Sorted out that little problem yet, Roger?

Peewee

There was a survey !

10.02.2005 09:34

Piss Artist is quite wrong ! Some Indymedia grafitti people did a proper scientific survey in East Oxford and found that it was only the council workers who had to clean them off who objected to them. They explained that this proves they are thick, because if there was nothing for them to clean off they would lose their jobs.

I didn't think Piss Artist would actually want us to see his much hiped holdiday snaps ! Good art isn't as easy as he thinks.

I don't know anyone in New Zealand. This Peewee sounds like a troll. What's he on about? Sending anybody viruses is wrong, anyway. His comments should be censored.

Vicki

Diagnosis on Roger's little problem

10.02.2005 13:32

http://161.58.5.90/vietnam/bj.wav

Dr. Benway

Kiwi lapwing really ?

10.02.2005 17:01

If it’s true that people overseas can trace the identity of Indymedia contributors and publicise them, we should all be worried about it. But of course it isn’t true. This is part of the bandwagon of blaming things on the evil “Roger”. This one is particularly inept, because “Roger” is usually supposed to be anti-censorship, and Vicki is pro-censorship. Wholebine isn’t really the sort of thing that gets labelled “Roger” either. Could it be that Pee Wee is the same person as Piss Artist ? If not, perhaps our well-informed Antipodean friend will tell us who Piss Artist is.

"Troll"

Not evil.

10.02.2005 18:10

Clinically speaking, Roger, you're not evil, you're just a sad old tosser.

I met you once, and friends of mine who know you have confirmed that you behave exactly in real life as you appear in print: only happy when you're belittling someone, or making their lives unpleasant.

This might account for the very small number of friends you have. Now that you're getting on a bit, don't you think it might be time to change your strategy?

Dr. Benway

From Roger Moreton

10.02.2005 21:22

This has been brought to my attention. I would like to make it absolutely clear what my views on graffiti and censorship are. In the vast majority of cases, I abhor graffiti. They are mostly ugly and pointless. Any messages they may carry are usually only apparent to the self-appointed élite who produce them. It is particularly wrong to daub these things on the freshly decorated walls of private property, to the distress of the occupants.

Nor should I be depicted as an art-obsessive, particularly when it comes to modern art. It’s true that I have done three short courses on History of Art, but they were on Classical influences, the Northern Renaissance, and American Art (from the earliest colonists). The stuff daubed on our walls and photographed by the likes of aex has no connexion whatever with Art in this sense (except possibly some of the loonier modern American creations,which never impressed me).

I have never knowingly met Dr Benway, but am gratified that he doesn’t think I am evil. It is extraordinary the libel that Indymedia is prepared to publish when it gets its collective knife into somebody, but at least I am in good company (e.g. Andrew Smith).
It does seem to me that it would be most improper (indeed the idea is repellent) to determine and publish the identity of any contributer to what is passed off as an anonymous forum, but of course they do whatever they like.

I foolishly made contributions to Indymedia when it started, using my own name and giving my real email address. It is very noticeable that no-one else does this, and I have paid the price. It is true that I have been sent viruses from New Zealand. I realised a long time ago that Indymedia is not really as claimed a forum for local people in Oxford to express their views whatever they may be. One must subscribe to a very narrow range of viewpoints (and even be the right age, as Dr Benway suggests), or risk being ridiculed and of course censored. I am very much opposed to this censorship of comments, which resembles nothing more than fascism. I don’t expect this comment, made in self-defence though it is, to remain on the website for long.

Roger Moreton
mail e-mail: rogerox@yahoo.co.uk

clarifier

11.02.2005 13:24

Not wanting to dissapoint - but the survey wasn't done by indymedia bods (since Oxford indymedia did not exist at that point) and wasn't quite scientific. But then you could argue all your life about the definition of scientific, especially when it comes to the social 'sciences'....

Basically structured interviews were used to speak to about 30 people who walked past the murals on Cowley Road for a project done for Oxford Brookes university anthropology course. Now it was done at a certain time, at a certain place(which would have affected the findings somewhat), but the findings were as you point out. I think responses might have been different in the middle of town or in North Oxford for example though. And yes, the council disliked it (but took it in their stride - not wanting to lose their jobs)....and yes the most memorable comments did come from someone who actually cleaned the graffiti off and really did seem a bit ignorant of the irony of him hating the graffiti artists.

It was fun to do this project, would have been even better if we could have built it into something more substantial.

paul k feyerabend

Old tosser speaks again

11.02.2005 15:50

Presumably paul k feyerabend can’t be right, because he agrees with Vicki, and Vicki is supposed to be me, and I am just a sad old tosser. However, to give my authorized actual opinion, it seems to me that a more scientific survey would have revealed a much larger percentage disliking graffiti strongly, and I don’t think paul k feyerabend or piss artist would disagree with this, sad old tosser though I may be, youthful though they may be. 30 isn’t a very large sample, and I wonder how the 30 were selected, and whether they were thinking mainly of quite attractive murals or of graffiti in general ? I’m very sorry if this comment contributes to making the lives of the struggling graffiti artists unpleasant, but everyone entering this website must be prepared to face just a little controversy from time to time.

Roger Moreton
mail e-mail: rogerox@yahoo.co.uk

Vicki the middle class Brian Sewell wannabe

11.02.2005 16:26

Dear Vicki,

Most art is seriousley overrated. And if you are so concerned about art hitting the streets and presumably implying that it is a real creative outlet for the working classes then you are way off the mark supporting the proposition that the men that have to clean the crappy tags off the walls are thick. they actually are working class and not just art school ponces.

and by the way a well written virus directed at a worthwhile target is art of a high nature and grand purpose. Unlike the midless tags that deface the walls of many of the countries already run down areas and add to the feeling of neglect and deprivation that sadly far too many people in this affluent country find themsleves living in.

clean up the tags and let the interesting thoughtful pollitical graffiti thrive.

Danger

Nice old Danger

11.02.2005 17:16

I very much hope that Danger realises that he actually AGREES with me about much modern art being overrated and about the desirability of cleaning up many of the pointless ugly graffiti defacing walls and adding to the feeling of neglect and deprivation that sadly far too many people in this affluent country find themselves living in . This being so, I very much hope that he will not direct one of his aesthetically faultless viruses at me by mistake. We may not agree completely about which graffiti are worthwhile, but surely there must be room for some difference of opinion on a website of this nature, without coming to electronic blows.

Rogerox

Against Method

11.02.2005 18:50

Yes, methodologically I won't go into everything now because even if I did 1) it would not satisfy you, because I think you would quickly resort to positivistic criticism of qualititative methodology. 2) because I alluded to problems with the methodology and 'sad old wanker' (or whatever you are called) chose to ignore this self-reflexivity which doesn't bode well for future exchanges. 3) because it happened a long time ago now (4 years ago now probably).

...but in the absense of a more comprehensive study it does no harm to repeat these findings.

if you want to make a research proposal that is beyond all criticism, I invite you to put the money up, put together a research model (probably using huge sample sizes and a combination of methods), and go ahead and commission it. Because you are clearly not an unbiased participant on this subject, you would not be a suitable researcher for such a project - and would have to hire someone to do this for you. And even if you were, it would be possible to call it 'flawed', as did Blair et al when they were comprehensively shown that 100,000 people had died due to their aggression in Iraq. C'est la vie when it comes to qualitative methods I suppose. (see the Lancet for this study)

god i'm being boring...need beer. keep on spraying.

paul k feyerabend

Roger

14.02.2005 10:20

Dear Roger,

Why shouldn't i agree with you? I have no idea who you are. As far as visuses are concerned i actually think that they are for the most part a pointless waste of everybodies time and more often than not generated by small minded school boys with a need to be noticed, much like the majority of art. However, if art in the present day can be considered to be almost anything, unmade beds, little plastic figures, and tags then viruses should also qualify. I personally think that the majority are annoying and pointless much like most art and tagging.

i have never sent nor knowingly passed on a virus, nor have i exhibited a tent or a decapitated shark - nor will I.

Danger

Dogma

14.02.2005 10:46

STRICT ADHERENCE TO ANY RELIGIOUS DOGMA IS INTELLECTUAL SUICIDE.

This is the best of the meaningful Oxford graffiti, with a clear message to passers-by (but very little aesthetic visual appeal). It is on the corner of Henley Street and Hurst Street.

It’s strange how paul k feyerabend seems to feel a macho need to have a go at Rogerox, when the two of them are basically in agreement. They both know that the 30 was a small sample all collected at one spot, and that the work done by students in the Cowley Road one afternooon 4 years ago cannot remotely be called a reliable scientific survey on attitudes to graffiti. Nor is there any reason to suggest that old people making such a survey would be any more prejudiced than young people !

Does Indymedia dogma demand the exclusion of anti-graffiti opinions as much a possible ?

"Troll"

And how strange

15.02.2005 07:44

..that you keep referring to yourself in the third person, Roger.
Posting as Troll, Vicki, Wholebine, etc. etc., in an attempt to make it look like someone other than you would be whining endlessly about nothing at all. I see stuff up here from you that's been posted as late as 2am sometimes.
Don't you get embarrassed, looking like such a complete saddo in public?

DB

Let's all be totally honest about our identities from now on.

16.02.2005 00:20

Dick Barton ought to feel embarrassed getting up as early as 7.44 to sadly pose as DB, Piss Artist, Steve, Dr Benway, Peewee etc, instead of manfully posting joyfully at midday under his own full name and giving his email address.

Anyway, why is, say, this Vicki “whining endlessly about nothing at all” more than, say, Piss Artist or anyone else ? Vicki in fact seems to be mainly repeating what she has learned here from other people.

Rogerox
mail e-mail: rogerox@yahoo.co.uk

Nice try, Roger.

16.02.2005 09:24

No, Roger. I'm not "Dick Barton". Go ring up "Dick Barton" and ask him for yourself.
I'm not Father Dick Burn, either:

http://www.mgnet.karoo.net/FATHER%20TED/FATHERTEDcharacters.htm

You, however, frequently post using multiple names on the same page, and refer to them in the third person in a vain attempt at portraying your unstable ravings as views held by more than one person in the entire city. It's your idea of low cunning, apparently.

Why do you suppose that your flamebait spam gets flushed all the time, but when other people post criticism of an article, it doesn't?

I'm pleased to see that all this has been left up though, as it was high time you were allowed to make yourself look like a complete twat in public.

Must dash now.

DB

Poor attempt, Dick

16.02.2005 11:54

So Dick Barton reckons that anti-graffiti views are not “held by more than one person in the entire city”, and that anti-graffiti views are “unstable ravings”. He seems to be stumbling around blinkered, prejudiced, and generally devoid of reason. I have frequently seen criticism of graffiti and other items removed when it had nothing whatever to do with me. Dick Barton must be the master “mind” behind this. At least aex welcomes controversy.

Rogerox

It's a plot, Roger!

16.02.2005 19:03

All run by a sinister master mind!

Frequently removing things!

David Bowie

No, it's worse than that!

16.02.2005 19:08

It's dental implants!

Sending you viruses from New Zealand!

I recommend you head over to Dick Barton's house right NOW, and pick a fight with him about it!

Hahahahaha!

Daniel Boone

Calling all artists

30.03.2005 18:27

I am a student at Brookes Uni studying anthropology. Im doing a project at the moment on the social status of graffiti and was wondering if any artisits reading this would be so kind as to meet with me and talk about their work. There's a couple of pints in it for you!! Cheers mail me at

02076381@brookes.ac.uk

Ben
mail e-mail: 02076381@brookes.ac.uk

Oxford Goblin

29.09.2005 23:33

I'd LOVE to hear from the guy who did 304904.jpg
The goblin head.
I've taken pictures of what I've been calling "The Oxford Goblin" whenever I run into it.
It just caught my eye.

There used to be one under a bridge in the St. Ebbs area and there has been the red one on Cowley Road for ages.

So, any ideas on who is doing it?

Charlie

cdaniels@calweb.com

Charles Daniels
mail e-mail: cdaniels@calweb.com

~VoRe~

31.12.2005 20:00

production with mems evail and veks and neak round the corner

can i just say glitch i think you need to cut down on the letters.. i really dont like it... got balls tho son!!
no beef

CANT TELL YOU THAT ONE!
mail e-mail: ermm-i-dont-think-so@ermmmno.com
Homepage: http://www.fotolog.net/vvvore

Graffiti from around Oxford, pt. 9

Comments

Praise !

Tags vs real stuff

This IS real authentic stuff.

dump the egotistical ones please

Art

Art is overrated

politics shmolitics...

Heavenly stuff

Crazy !

Oh please!

Eerie similarity

There was a survey !

Diagnosis on Roger's little problem

Kiwi lapwing really ?

Not evil.

From Roger Moreton

clarifier

Old tosser speaks again

Vicki the middle class Brian Sewell wannabe

Nice old Danger

Against Method

Roger

Dogma

And how strange

Let's all be totally honest about our identities from now on.

Nice try, Roger.

Poor attempt, Dick

It's a plot, Roger!

No, it's worse than that!

Calling all artists

Oxford Goblin

~VoRe~

Kollektives

Oxford Topics

Oxford links

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